By , Mount Vernon News
December 8, 2009, 11:10 am

MOUNT VERNON — Jim Stockdale is on the stand this morning during the termination hearing of former Mount Vernon Middle School science teacher John Freshwater.

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35 Responses to “Freshwater Termination Hearing”

  1. Henry

    way too many people got on this band wagon , way too much money has been spent , and how much longer, and how much more money will be wasted ?I love watching my tax dollars being wasted , wonder what this cost per tax payer ? Wonder what it will cost future generations of tax payers ?

  2. John C. Davidson

    Give a nut a platform and he’ll milk it for all it’s worth.

  3. Mimi

    Dave Daubenmire,

    Your attempts to stand by John Freshwater led to your ill-considered remark to the Columbus Dispatch (“with the exception of the cross-burning episode…..”), your embarrassingly inept interview on Geraldo, and your being given a gag-order by Freshwater’s attorney and minister. Why isn’t your God helping YOU, Dave?

  4. Mimi

    Dave Daubenmire,

    For ten years you have been preaching your version of The Truth. All it has gotten you is “mounds of debt” (according to your 11/26 commentary), a wife who has been put through the wringer to your regret (again according to your commentary), and a reputation as a local religous nutcase (according to public opinion). It doesn’t seem that your God has lifted so much as a finger to help you “serve” him. Why is that?

  5. david

    I have a few questions for the Stickle’s. What is your aim or goals in the Freshwater termination hearing? Cfacts says that Freshwater is being fired for having a bible on the desk, but the school board back in June listed the reasons as :

    “Used a high-frequency generator to make the shape of a cross into the arm of eighth-grade students; consistently failed to adhere to established curriculum under the American Content Standards for eighth-grade science and taught religious beliefs in his classroom; exceeded the statutorily imposed limitations of a monitor for the Fellowship of Christian Athletes; and was insubordinate in his deliberate failure to remove all religious articles from his classroom.”

    So why are you presenting it as a bible on the desk issue? When it’s clearly not based on that.

  6. Jody

    One or two of the comments got under my skin. People need to dig deeper and do honest self evaluations. “Every man is right in his own eyes.” If we look through the eyes of God, (comparing ourselves with scripture) it puts a whole new perspective on things. I know people aren’t willing to do that, but they’re taking the ultimate risk. It’s really a very sad and disturbing situation. I find it hard to believe America is ever going to recover (morally or economically). I’m afraid our children don’t have much to look forward to in the time they have here on earth, but maybe that will make them look for answers beyond this earth. At least Mr. Freshwater is calling attention to the bible. The other issues beyond that fact, I’m uncertain of. I just want to say I believe there is One God and One Mediator between God and man, the Man Jesus Christ. I’m not willing to try to pass this test on my own (yes, life is a test). I would fail. May God bless you all.

  7. my2centsworth

    The thing that burns me up is the way Freshwater tries to keep it going & going. A very stubborn man! Everytime I go down Coshocton ave. on a Saturday….there he is w/ those apples, & things he’s trying to sell.
    He’s only trying to get pity from the public. If he valued his job enough to keep it, he would have followed the schools policy, & taught education, not religion.

    People are making this whole mess into religion & evolution theory.
    Thats not what it is.

    It’s about this stubborn ole’ coot that is very rebellious, & his defiant ways finally caught up w/ him, & he got fired. (Just what he desearved.)
    If the whole town would ignore him, he wouldn’t have a audience to make him feel like he’s still on stage or in the limelight.

  8. toboso57

    Okay, I have heard and read enough of this Freshwater thing. He knew the rules before he took this job. He made the choice not to obey them. Yes, just having the bible there broke the rule long before he started preaching. I grew up in a very strick religious home, that believed that beating religion into me would make me a believer for life. It didn’t. The bible it’s self said that God created Adam and Eve. So explain to me, who can quote the bible as well as any preacher, where did the rest of us come from? God had Noah take every animal 2 by 2 into the ark with his family before he flooded the world, so again, where do we come from? I have my beliefs the same as everyone else does, but unlike Freshwater, I don’t pressure people, let alone a child, with my beliefs. If he is a Christian as he claims to be, why don’t he confess he did wrong, and ask the community for it’s forgiveness and end this nonsense. After all that is what the bible says to do!!!

  9. am

    Jana
    You are most certainly correct it isnt an honest world, if it was Mr. F would admit his guilt to not following procedure and quit wasting time and money.

  10. Jana

    I am in ‘ahhh” this morning reading all of this!!! WOW! Is this an argument page or what?
    I have too much going on in my life to worry about something I have no control over. Therefore, I will keep my thoughts to myself. I only went to this page for Damian; lil’ did I know this was a Nancy Grace page. lol Sorry, just my imput! *MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OF YOU* and I’m sorry that Freshwaters car windows were bashed in when he was trying to sell Christmas trees for 20 bucks on the honesty of others!! It isn’t an honest world!

  11. Jody

    Hey there Sherrie…Jesus did accept His punishment…Nope…that was your punishment, and I won’t deny, mine, also. Jesus also told us we would be persecuted for speaking the truth, and that we would be hated. Thus, with a grateful heart, Mr. Freshwater has the courage to stand for what he believes in. As far as the bible only being meant for the church because it’s a “religious book”, are you putting up a fight against the koran, and other “religious books” being taught in our schools, (not to mention, evolution). I once heard a man say, “If you don’t have anything worth dying for, you don’t have anything worth living for.” How about it Sherrie, do you have anything worth dying for. Christians have been sending their children to school for years, sat by quietly while they were told they are ancestors of apes. If we all would do our own research, and have the courage to tell our children all the choices they have, hopefully they would have enough intelligence to come to the most sensible conclusion. There are many theories, religions and myths to choose from. The truth will prove itself. People are angry and resentful, based on a lack of knowledge for which they are unwilling to put forth the effort to research. One day we will all give an account to God. What is your soul worth to you? What is your child’s soul worth? It seems worth the effort to me.

  12. Jody

    That’s a bummer…It took me quite a lot of time. I’ll see what I can come up with.

  13. Joshua Morrison

    Looking through the system, it flagged one post as a duplicate entry and deleted it. You’ll have to repost your reply. I apologize for that, once it gets flagged for deletion there’s no way to retrieve it. It does that to keep spammers off the discussion.

  14. am

    To all you jesus people: No one has any proof (in my opinion) to any of the theories taught. They are that-theories.
    We werent around we dont actually know who is wrong and who is right.
    You pretend you are the only people who have all the answers. In reality, you dont, you believe what you choose and others believe what they choose. It doesnt mean because someone doesnt share your views you have to be nasty and rude. You are more defensive than anyone, it makes you sound like fanatics. Choose to believe, but let everyone else choose for themselves.
    This is so simple- it really doesnt matter how John believes -it matters what he teaches in a public school, if it is against policy, you dont do it and if you do you take the punishment.

  15. Jody

    Thank you Joshua. Sorry for my impatience. I hope you enjoyed your lunch. I am still curious as to my reply to Sherrie. If you choose to post it, you’re welcome to correct my grammatical error, (proof to prove)

  16. am

    I had all this science when I was in school, My teacher taught a little of all the theories, never once did she throw in that the ” bible” says homosexuality is a sin??? That is not teaching theories that is actually sexual harrassment to any homosexual in the class, if there were any they should sue Mr. F.

  17. am

    DAVE- My tax paying dollars are not for Mr Freshwater to teach his beliefs to my child, I will handle that.
    He needs to stop the insanity and go teach at a christian school of his choice, where those parents CHOOSE to have their kids taught that religion.
    I dont suppose your Dave Daubenmire ? If you are, in my opinion your are just as much to blame for this waste of my money as he is, for encouraging it.

  18. seeking

    Good grief.

    This so-called “teacher” burned students in his care with a high-voltage device.

    The so-called “teacher” actively taught middle-school kids that modern scientific understanding must bow to his own particular interpretation of Scripture.

    This so-called “teacher” knew that he was doing wrong; why else would he not allow kids to take home those IDcreationism handouts at the end of each period?

    So what if he kept a Bible on the desk? – that’s not what this is about. It’s about a teacher who shows an unrepentant pattern of behavior. It’s about a teacher who thinks he’s above the law. It’s about a teacher who thinks everyone else’s kids should believe in God the same way he does, and who uses his public school classroom for proselytization. It’s about a teacher who *deliberately* burned kids while they were entrusted to his care.

    If Freshwater was an atheist teacher who’d treated his students like this, he’d have been strung up in the town square many months ago.

  19. Joshua Morrison

    Your comments were not inappropriate. I was at lunch, so your comments were held for that duration. I apologize for the delay.

  20. Jody

    This reply is to the editor….I have submitted three replies, not one having any unfit comments. I’m quite curious as to why, you are censoring my comments. If you have the character, feel free to contact me at my email address and let me know what was inappropriate in my comments.

  21. Jody

    “religious nuts” You may be teaching your daughter to be polite and respectful, but your own comments, make it apparent; that you don’t hold yourself accountable to the same standard. If your daughter grows up to be as intelligent as her potential, she will most likely see her father is as much a hypocrite as all us Christians are accused of being. What you may not understand CB, is that we know we fall short. If you ever have the opportunity to talk to a true believer, you would probably find out they are remorseful for the sin in their life. “Sin” (a word nobody wants to use) goes far beyond being honest and faithful to your wife, and maintaining a “good job”. We are all accountable to God. Mortality rate thus far is 100%. I encourage you to self evaluate a little deeper.

  22. John Davidson

    Is it any wonder why no one wants to start a business anymore with all the legal issues for lawyers to attack you with and destroy profitablility. The government mandates are even worse.You can have a law firm confirm the legality of a employment manual of rules and regulations, yet another to contradict it. Of course, they is a considerable amount of money to made continuing the debacle

    Nothing is sacred in America anymore when we exploit children and then, too, when they exploit their parents using government agencies to do so..

  23. BAJ

    I think it is sad that our children feel that they need to decide at some point what their sexuality is. Say what you want but things have changed and the scripture that says…. “Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess”.. trumps all. Every soul that reads this will meet our maker at the end of his days.

    I’m not saying Freshwater is right and I have never attended one of his classes, but it seems people are scared to stand up for what they believe anymore. Everyone wants to stay real neutral. Luke warm. Keep in mind there is a truth of love and it has nothing to do with your pride.

    Love. Sometimes when I see someone like Freshwater I wonder if he is doing this in love or self righteousness. I like the points that people are bringing up like… a waste of money, and think of the kids at this point.

  24. Buddy Moreland

    Sherrie you put down WWJD . Well if you know anything you know he did not put his tail between his legs He gave the ultimate and was crucified for his belief and to share the burden for all so don’t talk about for” in order to be righteous”.

  25. CB

    This is funny. You religious nuts make it sound like if somebody doesn’t go to church that there bad people. I happen to be raising a daughter right now, and she is the most polite little girl you would ever meet. She is kind to people, and shows respect to older people. She’s not that way because i take her to church every sunday and have her brain washed. She’s that way because me and my wife have raised her that way. I know many people who claim to be christians that are drunks, liars, and cheats. They just think they can hide behind the bible. I’ve never cheated, and lied to my wife. I have a very good job, and provide a very good life to my family. I didn’t learn that out of a bible. I learned it from good parents that never went to church either. But i guess in your eyes im going to hell because i don’t go to church.

  26. Sherrie

    Can we please stop this embarrassment. If Freshwater truly cared about the children, he would tuck his tail and let it go! It’s a waste of money. If you can’t follow a contract, then don’t teach at public school. You are lucky you got away with your tactics for so long. In the old days, you would have been fired and that would be that. Church is where religion belongs, not in public education. WWJD? He would accept his punishment and not drag this out in order to be righteous.

  27. Nate

    CB, hahaha. That is hilarious. I can’t count the amount of people that try to simplify Christianity down to something that it is not. It is the best way to try to bring down the people trying to do good in this world. Look at the current state of the US, and tell me that it has not degraded morally and ethically. There are more cheaters, liars, hate, and lust in this nation than ever before. Our nation’s laws were based on Biblical truths. Since people like you have taken God out of the schools, children have lost sight of right and wrong. I’m not one of those Christians that hopes you “get what you deserve”, but I hope you realize the mistake you’ve made and try to turn around your life for the sake of the next generation. Damian, thank you for your sacrifice, if only other people in the US could understand the values behind it.

  28. Damian Lawson

    CB, show me proof that a monkey decided to stand up one day and start talking, then I’ll agree that we should teach one without the other. And you obviously haven’t met many preachers. Chuck Haggi of Journey Church went through about four $500 vehicles the first year that I attended his church, in Howard on Schenck Creek Rd. if you wanna see the proof for yourself. You know if you don’t have any kinda intellectual thoughts or debates to put out and you’re just getting on here to bash Mr. Freshwater you should just keep your thoughts to yourself. Because when you think about it, the insults and name calling is only making you look like the bad guy in the end.

  29. CB

    DAVE, Get off the jesus kick. Show me proof that he ever walked the earth. The bible was wrote by a group of guys wanting to play a joke on people, and make a little money on the side. Your religion isn’t nothing more than a money scam. Show me a preacher that doesn’t drive a lexus, or bmw, or a caddy and maybe i’ll listen to what he has to say. FRESHWATER IS A NUT JOB!

  30. Damian Lawson

    I don’t like this situation at all. I’m tired of this argument. Until a teacher is not only allowed but required to teach every “theory” of creation then they shouldn’t be allowed to teach any of them. It’s outrageous to tell a teacher to teach the “theory” of evolution, and at the same time tell them that they are in no way, shape or form supposed to even mumble the name Jesus because that might offend someone. A teacher can’t even keep a bible on his desk without the fear that he could get in trouble. To many people have forgotten that this country was built on the backs of Christians fighting for the freedom to practice Christianity the way that they wanted without being persecuted by Puritans. We are probably the only nation in the world that has fallen so far from the religion that we were born from. The Islamic extremists that are soldiers, your children and myself are overseas trying to protect you from are a hundred times more unified in their religious beliefs then our country has been in decades. Shame on you Diana who thinks your children shouldn’t be given the opportunity to learn every possible aspect of this world.

  31. MV homeowner

    This “trial” is a joke. What a waste of money and energy, and an embarassment for the community. If you want to teach religion, work in a private school.

  32. Dave

    Priceless. A teacher on trial for teaching the truth and trying to instill reason and morality into our youth. As Diana says, shame on you for attempting to teach young people the truth. How much better that we pay teachers to teach our children not to be ashamed of abomination and to live their lives with no moral compass.
    What would Jesus do?
    How will you answer to God for supporting the dismissal of a man who tries to teach the truth?

  33. Diana

    Well I have heard everything now. Are you kidding Mr Freshwater? What right do you have to tell these students in a public school something like this, and if you told them this, what else over the years have you said. Not only should you be dismissed from ever teaching again, if I had a child in your classroom we would be going to court right after this one…..even this one ever ends…what a sin to not only drag out this case this long and cost us all so much, but that you would even have the nerve to go to court in the first place. Shame on you!